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| Do you believe the the official story? |
| Of course, i have no doubt in my mind |
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36% |
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| Yip, but i still have some answers! |
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| Nope, the truth will emerge someday soon |
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| No way, believe Bush and the US govt, the same ones that told us Saddam had WMD? |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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Bigman
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 66
Location: In a Fifedom far far away...........
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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In plane sight
IMHO, the whole thing is suspect, the most secure building in the world and 5 frames of a dodgy security camera to record an airliner going in? (and not seeing an airliner going in)
Suspect flashes as the aircraft hit the twin towers?
Pods attached to belly of the 757 that hit the second tower?
Eyewitnesses saying the planes did not have windows and did not look like commercial airliners?
Eyewitnesses (Fifefighters, police, reporters, people at the scene) hearing 'bombs' going off as the buildings collapsed?
Building 7 'collapsing' into a neat heap 8 hours later and the owner of the world trade centre complex telling reporters that building 7 had to be 'pulled' (demolished) 8 hours later???
A 757 'disappearing' into a hole in the ground in Pennsylvania? (Flight 93)
Flight 93 turning up an hour an half later at an airport in Cleaveland?
If a guy in a cave in Afghanistan can do that with a few guys with box cutters (who incidently most have been seen post 9/11 living happily in Saudi Arabia)) to the most defended, heavilly protected country on the planet what chance have we got?
Smells like sh*te to me!
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Xcotty
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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There is definately more to this, than we have been told.
It'll come out eventually though, always does. |
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Nope dont believe it..
On Paltalk there are rooms dedicated to 9/11 & some of the folk that comment on this terrible happening claim that they are being watched, that their mail is intercepted & that they have been approached by unknown people & threatened with imprisonment if they dont stop digging..
Now of course some of them will just be paranoid but on the other hand there will be some truth to these claims..
One other thing i heard was that all the gold that was usually kept in the vaults below the WTC buildings was transferred out two weeks before but the owners claim that it was lost in the collapse..
Does anybody know the melting point for gold???  |
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Bigman
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 66
Location: In a Fifedom far far away...........
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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The melting point for gold is: 1064.43 °C (1337.5801 K, 1947.9741 °F)
Boiling Point: 2807.0 °C (3080.15 K, 5084.6 °F)
Even if it did melt, it wouldn't vapourize and the melted gold would be easilly found.
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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There are too many conspiracies around 9/11 which have not been sufficiently debunked IMHO.
http://www.sundayherald.com/searc...n_towers_on_september_11_2001.php
Did MOSSAD know of the pending attack and not tell the Americans, or had they inadvertently stumbled on the US polt?
The bottom line is they were there to record the imminent attack on the Twin Towers. |
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AllanP
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Central Scotland.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| Bigman wrote: | In plane sight
IMHO, the whole thing is suspect, the most secure building in the world and 5 frames of a dodgy security camera to record an airliner going in? (and not seeing an airliner going in)
Suspect flashes as the aircraft hit the twin towers?
Pods attached to belly of the 757 that hit the second tower?
Eyewitnesses saying the planes did not have windows and did not look like commercial airliners?
Eyewitnesses (Fifefighters, police, reporters, people at the scene) hearing 'bombs' going off as the buildings collapsed?
Building 7 'collapsing' into a neat heap 8 hours later and the owner of the world trade centre complex telling reporters that building 7 had to be 'pulled' (demolished) 8 hours later???
A 757 'disappearing' into a hole in the ground in Pennsylvania? (Flight 93)
Flight 93 turning up an hour an half later at an airport in Cleaveland?
If a guy in a cave in Afghanistan can do that with a few guys with box cutters (who incidently most have been seen post 9/11 living happily in Saudi Arabia)) to the most defended, heavilly protected country on the planet what chance have we got?
Smells like sh*te to me! |
Maybe you think that we educated folk cannot believe that some arab choggie's cannot eventually devise a plan on a massive scale to cause havoc on the west by killing masses of human beings by flying aeroplanes into tagetted buildings.
These people are every bit like us, except that they are fanatically driven with no principles about sufering and human life.
They have all the skills of we human beings to learn, think and devise a totally new plan to cause the maximum attention to their grievances against western influence.
I saw this happening live on TV at the time, and it was REAL.
Shame on you if you think that this was anything but!
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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We all saw it happen on TV but that doesnt mean that there wasnt some shady stuff going on..
Certain senators where warned not to fly that day,the gold going missing,fireman reporting hearing explosions going off in the towers..
Come on, this may have started out as a terror attack but the American intelligence agencies had prior knowledge that this was going to take place & contributed to it knowing full well that all the blame would fall on the terrorists..
This also gave Bush the excuse to go into Afghanistan & Iraq under the guise of a war against terror when really it was & is about BLACK GOLD |
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| AllanP wrote: | Maybe you think that we educated folk cannot believe that some arab choggie's cannot eventually devise a plan on a massive scale to cause havoc on the west by killing masses of human beings by flying aeroplanes into tagetted buildings.
These people are every bit like us, except that they are fanatically driven with no principles about sufering and human life.
They have all the skills of we human beings to learn, think and devise a totally new plan to cause the maximum attention to their grievances against western influence.
I saw this happening live on TV at the time, and it was REAL. |
Do you think that I'm uneducated because I hold a different view?
| AllanP wrote: | | Shame on you if you think that this was anything but! |
I do not blindly subscribe to the widely held view that the government, any government would not do such a thing to their own people. The incontrovertable proof is that they have done in the past. Hitler's Germany for one. And the Brits..... Christmas Island.
and there's this:
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/facul...20Tuskegee%20Syphilis%20Study.htm
Just the very thing these people faught in a war for to prevent. They can still do this though, if they have presidential approval! |
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Cailean
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 38
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Xcotty wrote: | There is definately more to this, than we have been told.
It'll come out eventually though, always does. |
Aye, Xcotty - like we all know who shot JFK in 1963 
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maria143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I saw it happen on TV...All the line busy because people were trying to get ahold of family...It was shocking watching people throw themselves off the roof and the windows of the twin towers...calls coming on the news of family members saying good bye and what he was intending to do with other passengers when they fought with the highjackers crashing into the mountains...
It was very hard on everybody...My Managers brother worked in front of the twin towers...his windows got blown in...
It was a hideaous show of power...Yeah I do believe it happened...
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Xcotty
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Cailean wrote: | | Xcotty wrote: | There is definately more to this, than we have been told.
It'll come out eventually though, always does. |
Aye, Xcotty - like we all know who shot JFK in 1963 |
Yip Cailean, I know what your saying pal.
But even that is bound to come out eventually. |
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Bill McLaughlin
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 108
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose it is too easy to believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack on the US?
Lots of the so called conspiracies appear to me to be invented by the 'conspiracy buffs', who then go looking for evidence to back up their theory.
The normal way to look at these things is to see what actually happened then look for the evidence as to who, why, and when.
Conspiracies take the back to front route every time find a who why and when, then fit that into their theory.
Has anybody actualy met any of those people making these calims, apart form the 'I know a man that knew a man that heard..............."
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Go to Radio 4>listen again>3.30 pm today...a story about the FBI and 9/11!
Geez!  |
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| maria143 wrote: | I saw it happen on TV...All the line busy because people were trying to get ahold of family...It was shocking watching people throw themselves off the roof and the windows of the twin towers...calls coming on the news of family members saying good bye and what he was intending to do with other passengers when they fought with the highjackers crashing into the mountains...
It was very hard on everybody...My Managers brother worked in front of the twin towers...his windows got blown in...
It was a hideaous show of power...Yeah I do believe it happened... |
There is no denying that it happened Maria, I know exactly where i was when the news came through..
I was in my Mums back yard tidying up for the coming winter & was listening to the radio & the horror of it all was still unfolding..
What a lot of people believe & I include my self in that is the belief that certain agencies in the USA knew that there was going to be a terrorist attack & they used that knowledge for their own gain regardless of the human cost..
There are too many anomalies regarding 9/11 |
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AllanP
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Central Scotland.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill McLaughlin wrote: | I suppose it is too easy to believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack on the US?
Lots of the so called conspiracies appear to me to be invented by the 'conspiracy buffs', who then go looking for evidence to back up their theory.
The normal way to look at these things is to see what actually happened then look for the evidence as to who, why, and when.
Conspiracies take the back to front route every time find a who why and when, then fit that into their theory.
Has anybody actualy met any of those people making these calims, apart form the 'I know a man that knew a man that heard..............." |
I have to agree with your above comments.
There are only a very few misguided individuals who have imagined an ulterior motive and secret governmental tinkering into the acts that we the sane majority saw happening on TV at that sad time.
How anybody could say that we all saw a US "conspiracy" is to say the least surprising, and to say the most "lunacy".
They might at least have hinted that perhaps it was aliens trying to take over the planet!
We trekkie's might well have understood that scenario at least, and sent "Star ship Enterprise" to sort them out.
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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How long did it take for the twin towers to collapse? A golf ball dropped at from the roof would hit the ground at the same time as the roof it was dropped from.
Both towers collapsed identically, despite being hit in different places.
Building 7 collapsed in the same fashon, some 3 blocks away from the WTC. It was not hit by a plane.
Do you want to talk about the Pentagon too? Did you see a plane hit it?
I really wish people would look at the film, or google 'loose change' and just answer the questions asked in the films. THEN TELL US!...... Bet you can't! |
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Merak
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| somebody remind me again of what the point of purposely bring down the WTC was. |
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Xcotty
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: |
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They were blocking the sun from that Bush fella's eyes.
Honest.  |
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Merak wrote: | | somebody remind me again of what the point of purposely bring down the WTC was. |
Several. The points are made in both the documentaries I referred to. But you have to wach them  |
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AllanP
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Central Scotland.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| shagpile wrote: | | AllanP wrote: | Maybe you think that we educated folk cannot believe that some arab choggie's cannot eventually devise a plan on a massive scale to cause havoc on the west by killing masses of human beings by flying aeroplanes into tagetted buildings.
These people are every bit like us, except that they are fanatically driven with no principles about sufering and human life.
They have all the skills of we human beings to learn, think and devise a totally new plan to cause the maximum attention to their grievances against western influence.
I saw this happening live on TV at the time, and it was REAL. |
Do you think that I'm uneducated because I hold a different view?
| AllanP wrote: | | Shame on you if you think that this was anything but! |
I do not blindly subscribe to the widely held view that the government, any government would not do such a thing to their own people. The incontrovertable proof is that they have done in the past. Hitler's Germany for one. And the Brits..... Christmas Island.
and there's this:
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/facul...20Tuskegee%20Syphilis%20Study.htm
Just the very thing these people faught in a war for to prevent. They can still do this though, if they have presidential approval! |
So therefore, by your own admission, you don't believe anything about 9/11 and what actually happened and it was all a big conspiracy or a con?
You, I'm sorry to say, should get out and about a bit more and enjoy yourself before judgement day comes and bites your sad arse.
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AllanP
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Central Scotland.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Merak wrote: | | somebody remind me again of what the point of purposely bring down the WTC was. |
In a sentence:- It was to try to weaken or destroy the western economy by terrorists, and it worked for a short time.
Now conspiracy theorist's are furthering their cause by saying it was planned by the yanks!
We all don't beleive that crap!!!!
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maria143
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe it either Allan...You know how many people lost their homes...jobs because company were closing down...The stock market OMG...I lost a bundle there....
I'm sorry I know it was worse for the victims and the family memebers.... 
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| AllanP wrote: | | So therefore, by your own admission, you don't believe anything about 9/11 and what actually happened and it was all a big conspiracy or a con? |
Allan, can I just ask you if you've watched the documentaries? It sounds like you haven't. I don't know what happened 9/11. It's just my oppinion is that the evedence does not fully concur with the official view.
IMHO the speed in wich the towers collapsed in that vertical manner; even though they were designed to withstand fire and aircraft collision. Did resemble controlled demolition. The undamaged unburning floors below the impact did not even slow nor impede in any way the collapse.
| AllanP wrote: | | You, I'm sorry to say, |
No you're not!
| AlllanP wrote: | | should get out and about a bit more and enjoy yourself before judgement day comes and bites your sad arse. |
Well thanks for your concern, but when that day comes there will be no conspiracy...... or maybe there will! |
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AllanP
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 488
Location: Central Scotland.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| shagpile wrote: | | AllanP wrote: | | So therefore, by your own admission, you don't believe anything about 9/11 and what actually happened and it was all a big conspiracy or a con? |
Allan, can I just ask you if you've watched the documentaries? It sounds like you haven't. I don't know what happened 9/11. It's just my oppinion is that the evedence does not fully concur with the official view.
IMHO the speed in wich the towers collapsed in that vertical manner; even though they were designed to withstand fire and aircraft collision. Did resemble controlled demolition. The undamaged unburning floors below the impact did not even slow nor impede in any way the collapse.
| AllanP wrote: | | You, I'm sorry to say, |
No you're not!
| AlllanP wrote: | | should get out and about a bit more and enjoy yourself before judgement day comes and bites your sad arse. |
Well thanks for your concern, but when that day comes there will be no conspiracy...... or maybe there will! |
Yes, I watched the documentary, and it also hinted that although the towers were indeed fireproof, the later investigation apparently showed that the main supports of the building which went up all sides to the top were weakened by the extreme temperature of the fires at point of impact which caused the deck of cards collapse due to the mass and weight of the building.
Normal fires, winds, and earthquakes had been taken into account during the building stressing factors, but not an impact of a missile strike which a plane loaded with fuel was very much similar to.
You must admit surely that even a small tactical missile would have caused very much the same effect.
To add on an apology to you anyway. Sorry I got on to you for your own honest opinion.
There are far too many conspiracy theorists around these days to be entirely helpful to us all here in the west.
But I do respect your opinion.
I trust you will respect mine and many others too.
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: 9/11, do you believe the official story? |
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| AllanP wrote: | | Yes, I watched the documentary, and it also hinted that although the towers were indeed fireproof, the later investigation apparently showed that the main supports of the building which went up all sides to the top were weakened by the extreme temperature of the fires at point of impact which caused the deck of cards collapse due to the mass and weight of the building. |
Allan, temperatures which were so extreme to seriously weaken the structural steel, yet not extreme enough to prevent a Fire Chief attending the burning floors and transmitting a plan to extinguish the fires? And uniform enough to simultaneously weaken all surrounding walls resulting in each wall collapsing at the same moment in time, even though one of the planes only hit a corner of one Tower? Most of the fuel ignited in a fireball outside of the structures. What was left inside the towers to sustain and grow the temeratures for almost an hour to seriously weaken the steal?
| AllanP wrote: | Normal fires, winds, and earthquakes had been taken into account during the building stressing factors, but not an impact of a missile strike which a plane loaded with fuel was very much similar to.
You must admit surely that even a small tactical missile would have caused very much the same effect. |
Can I say again Allan that the Towers were designed to withstand an aircraft collision. The Empire State Building, never was designed to withstand aircraft collision, yet it survived being hit by a B52, lost in fog, and burned for longer. It's funny (not funny ha ha) that you mention a missile hitting the building though, in "Loose Change", the second plane which hits, appears to 'fire a missile', moments before impact. Remember, every man and his dog was filming this by the time of the second attack.
On all the footage of the collapses (it is claimed) explosions can be seen all the way down the towers, preceeding each collapsing floor.
| AllanP wrote: | To add on an apology to you anyway. Sorry I got on to you for your own honest opinion.
There are far too many conspiracy theorists around these days to be entirely helpful to us all here in the west.
But I do respect your opinion.
I trust you will respect mine and many others too. |
Not to cause you offence Allan, I accept your appology even though I don't believe you needed to offer one. In normal conversations, there is body language, gestures etc which aid conversation. On a forum, unfortunately none of these are present. Can you imagine, for instance us coming to blows in a pub for the few sentances we've exchanged thus far? So why should teddy come right out of the cot in cyber world? 
I do respect the oppinion of others, even if it doesn't sound like it at times, believe me it's only my own frustration. And please don't think I'm trying to convert you into a "conspiracist", I used to be firmly of your oppinion, but now, as I've said, these conspiracy theories around 9/11 have not been sufficiently debunked. For example, why release only 5 frames of a plane hitting the pentagon (where there's no sign of a plane), unless more frames released would show something else?
I've just recently become aware though on this:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html
The BBC reported the collapse of WTC7, 20 mins before it collapsed, and then amazingly lost all the footage of the report. |
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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This is a tad off topic but as its related to terror so I feel this is justified
There were four young Asian guys that parked here up earlier today,jumped straight out of the car & were very deliberate where they took their photos on the beach here
They could have walked straight ahead onto the beach but walked out of their way to a spot facing the power station on the mainland & their behavior was extremely suspect so I noted their registration,make & model of car & phoned the old bill..
Where I live there is a lot of shipping traffic,including lots of Royal Navy ships & subs coming & going so safe than sorry is my motto..
I could be wrong & if I am no harm done but given the climate of terror that exists I feel that I did the right thing..
Would I have done the same if it was 4 white lads?, probably not but its not them that are fighting a jihad & bombing all around the world in the name of religion...
Infact the old bill have just popped into see me regarding it
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Des wrote: | This is a tad off topic but as its related to terror so I feel this is justified
There were four young Asian guys that parked here up earlier today,jumped straight out of the car & were very deliberate where they took their photos on the beach here
They could have walked straight ahead onto the beach but walked out of their way to a spot facing the power station on the mainland & their behavior was extremely suspect so I noted their registration,make & model of car & phoned the old bill..
Where I live there is a lot of shipping traffic,including lots of Royal Navy ships & subs coming & going so safe than sorry is my motto..
I could be wrong & if I am no harm done but given the climate of terror that exists I feel that I did the right thing..
Would I have done the same if it was 4 white lads?, probably not but its not them that are fighting a jihad & bombing all around the world in the name of religion...
Infact the old bill have just popped into see me regarding it |
Des, I was in the RAF, early 80s. The general feeling was that anyone who spoke with an Irish accent was a potential terrorist back then. It's a good job you can actually spot them now Seriously though, anyone who sees something suspicious should report it, Asian, Black, White or whatever.
And don't believe for one minute that we're all about to be blown up. You're much safer smoking 500 cigs a day, and drinking 10 pints of lager, but not whilst driving of course! |
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Point taken Shag but there was something not quite right about these guys & apparently the old bill received several calls regarding their behavior..
I dont believe for one minute that every Asian is a potential terrorist just as every Irish person wasnt in the IRA but I do believe that every politician that opens his or her mouth is lying 
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shagpile
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Des wrote: | | Point taken Shag but there was something not quite right about these guys & apparently the old bill received several calls regarding their behavior.. |
If they were up to no good sorted! Well done for your vigilance. I believe it's always a difficult call to make, ie ah somebody else will call or maybe they'll think I'm being a 'busy body'.
| Des wrote: | | I dont believe for one minute that every Asian is a potential terrorist just as every Irish person wasnt in the IRA but I do believe that every politician that opens his or her mouth is lying |
Glad you understood the point I was making mate. Include your last sentance and I can definately say we agree. |
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Des
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 255
Location: Isle of Bute
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I wasn't sure if I should call or not but something just wasn't right so I did what had to be done..
Was it justified? well im still not sure but il find out from one of the local bobbies what happened & let you know..
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