| Archive for FTS |
| shagpile |
Cloak and Daggerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=zwzRtn0y7WEIt's about time that conspiracy to pervert the course of democracy was a crime. 
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| AllanP |
Re: Cloak and Dagger
You have shown on your personal profile that you describe yourself as a nomad. If you are, then just what is your interest in democracy or democratic issues? |
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| Thespian |
2 parties meet confidentially to see if there is a way they can form a coalition in order to govern in a minority government. Shock!! Horror!!
Don't be daft! This is done all the time all over the world and is part of the democratic process. The SNP may have received the most votes, but they did not receive an overall majority from the people of Scotlnd to govern, therefore did not have a clear mandate. If another 2 parties could have formed a coalition, and thereby gain an overall majority, then they would have that mandate. By he way, I take it Alex Salmond flew to London especially to make that film, because it certainly wasn't to take his seat in the House of Commons to represent the people of Banff and Buchan as he was elected to do. Now, that's what I call an abuse of the democratic system. |
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| shagpile |
Re: Cloak and Dagger
I pay tax and NI contributions in the UK, interest enough?
No, two party leders of UK unionist parties met in secret without the knowledge of their respective leaders in Scotland to thwart any SNP mandate the Scots voted for.
OK. Well are you saying that the SNP are not the democratically elected government of Scotland because they don't have a clear mandate?
But, you agree with Wendy's remarks? Someone who breaks the law, admits breaking the law, and does not even face a judge who is qualifid to weigh up mitigating factors and conclude under the law what is reasonable or unreasonable. AND STILL leads the party in Scotland, who is backed by GB himself. Democracy only works if the people, all the people, are equally accountable under the law. I suppose AS was illegaly at Westminster? |
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| Thespian |
"But, you agree with Wendy's remarks? Someone who breaks the law, admits breaking the law, and does not even face a judge who is qualifid to weigh up mitigating factors and conclude under the law what is reasonable or unreasonable. AND STILL leads the party in Scotland, who is backed by GB himself. "
Huh. Where's the connection between AS's lack of attendance at Westminster and WA's remarks. Where did I say that? Come on, I thought this was a friendly board! What I was saying is that it is not unusual for leaders of parties to try to work together to further their own agendas, whether they are national (as in UK) leaders or Scottish leaders. Perhaps I was wrong and clouding the issue by referring to AS's interview outside Westminster, but I did find it really galling to see him outside the House where he is paid to attend and where he has never been since his election to Holyrood. Before you defend him by saying he tries to donate the money back, that's not the point; he has a paid position and does not honour it. |
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| shagpile |
I believe it's for AS to decide how to best represent the interests of his constituents, don't you? By singling out AS, you gave me the impression that you condoned the remarks made by that sleasy leader of the SLP. Oh this is a friendly board, sorry 
It's usual for leaders of parties to conspire to thwart the democratic wishes of the Scottish electorate? Their own agendas is of greater importance? Oh that's OK then, in a unionist, friendly sort of way 
Be galled if you like, pehaps you might be galled on behalf of STVs shareholders too, after all, sending a reporter and a cameraman all the way to Westminster when he spends all his time at Holyrood. Shocking! In a kind of shocked friendly way
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| Thespian |
Firstly sarcasm is the lowest form of wit .
What is it about nationalists (By the way, I voted SNP in the last Scottish election!) or more specifically the type of nationalist who tends to post on these boards. They all seem to have a persecution complex. To clarify the points I made, which were entirely within the bondaries of the topic outlined in the opening post of this thread. 1. Any party, whether they be nationalist, unionist, socialist, communist or any other "ist" you care to name is voted into their office based on manifesto promises. They are duty bound to try to implement their promises. If that means meeting with another party to look for common ground, then they are entitled to do that. 2. As Alex Salmond chose to be interviewed outside Wesminster in the interview posted here as the basis for this discussion, I said I though it was rich that he chose to make his point in this way as he has never seen fit to represent his constituents there. And, no, it not for Alex Salmond to decide what is the best way to represent his constituents. If every MP acted that way we would have no Parliament. I really wish that you could argue the topics you introduce rather than bringing in superfluous issues such as personal attacks and Wendy Alexander, not to mention STV. |
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| shagpile |
I don't feel persecuted, I feel angry! Why arn't you?
I don't have a problem with the Scottish Branches of any UK party negotiating to form a coalition government and take control of the Devolved issues of government. I DO have a problem with UK party leaders going behind the backs of their respective leaders in Scotland to dictate to those leaders who they can talk or not talk to. Otherwise what is the point of having a Scottish parliament with devolved issues to govern on? I respect Joke McConnell though for saying that the largest party elected to Holyrood should be given the first crack at forming a government.
Are you one of his constituents? If you are you make a valid point. If you're not, you are simply 'Nat Bashing' IMHO.
YOU chose to single out AS, when the topic was about the 'Cloak and Dagger' tactic of Sir Menzies and GB. If AS is never at Westminster as you claim, why did STV send their team there to interview him? So what right have Sir Ming and Gordy Broon to decide who deals with whom in the Holyrood Parliament, if they're not elected to sit there? |
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| Thespian |
YOU chose to single out AS, when the topic was about the 'Cloak and Dagger' tactic of Sir Menzies and GB. If AS is never at Westminster as you claim, why did STV send their team there to interview him?
I didn't single him out. You chose to insert a youtube film with AS featured outside Westminster! I'm not Nat bashing, I'm Alex Salmond bashing. As a tax payer in the United Kingdom, I am perfectly entitled to "bash" someone who draws a substantial salary from my taxes and does not earn it. |
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| Thespian |
Sorry, I posted prematurely.
In answer to the question about GB and MK meeting to discuss the Holyrood election, the answer is very simple. At this point in history, Scotland is not independent. This may well change in the future, but at the moment, we have a devolved parliament. By definition, this means that the national leaders have a responsibility for said parliament. There lies their right to have that discussion. |
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| Guest |
Only on National Policy. For Scottish domestic affairs the should Butt out!
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| Thespian |
The running if elections is still a reserved matter. (However, that may change very soon!!  )
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| shagpile |
Yes, I posted the link, a link about Sir Ming and Gordy conspiring in secret talks to pervert the democratic verdict of the Scottish electorate to govern on the devolved issues that Holyrood is responsible for. As this is perfectly acceptable to you even though you say you voted SNP. You attack AS, giving his response as part of that STV report, because he gave it outside Westminster. A place where he is entitled to sit; and you say he never is. Does that invalidate what he said? Would what he said be vaid if he said it outside Holyrood? And what of WA's remarks?
Dual mandate is permitted under devolution. Where is the abuse of the democratic system?
Yes I know, rather feebily and pathetically IMHO.
Are you a constituent of AS?
Utter crap! Holyrood is the place where devolved issues are debated and enacted. Not a sideshow where MK and GB can do deals for Westminster coalition government. What hypocracy you write. Again it's OK for them to conspire as to whom the First Minister of Scotland might be in a parliament to which they are not elected to. Yet it's an abuse of the democratic process for AS to give an interview outside a place where he is elected to. Perhaps in you deliberately obtuse way, you don't understand what has transpired here. Here's a link to yesterday's Sunday herald: http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2104815.0.0.php I think this quote from the article sums it up really.
Yep, only independence will do that, and that will be soon
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